diff --git a/ccan/README b/ccan/README
index 22c932a03..df4af7c9c 100644
--- a/ccan/README
+++ b/ccan/README
@@ -1,3 +1,3 @@
 CCAN imported from http://ccodearchive.net.
 
-CCAN version: init-2435-g92be2eff
+CCAN version: init-2440-g55d81423
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/compile_fail-expect-any-padding.c b/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/compile_fail-expect-any-padding.c
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..321aef3a3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/compile_fail-expect-any-padding.c
@@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
+#include <ccan/structeq/structeq.h>
+
+struct mydata {
+	int start, end;
+};
+#ifdef FAIL
+#define PADDING -1
+#else
+#define PADDING 0
+#endif
+
+STRUCTEQ_DEF(mydata, PADDING, start, end);
+
+int main(void)
+{
+	struct mydata a = { 0, 100 };
+
+	return mydata_eq(&a, &a);
+}
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/compile_fail-expect-padding.c b/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/compile_fail-expect-padding.c
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..cec9f8465
--- /dev/null
+++ b/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/compile_fail-expect-padding.c
@@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
+#include <ccan/structeq/structeq.h>
+
+struct mydata {
+	int start, end;
+};
+#ifdef FAIL
+#define PADDING 1
+#else
+#define PADDING 0
+#endif
+
+STRUCTEQ_DEF(mydata, PADDING, start, end);
+
+int main(void)
+{
+	struct mydata a = { 0, 100 };
+
+	return mydata_eq(&a, &a);
+}
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/compile_fail-unexpceted-padding.c b/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/compile_fail-unexpceted-padding.c
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..af926ce1c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/compile_fail-unexpceted-padding.c
@@ -0,0 +1,20 @@
+#include <ccan/structeq/structeq.h>
+
+struct mydata {
+	int start, end;
+	int pad;
+};
+#ifdef FAIL
+#define PADDING 0
+#else
+#define PADDING sizeof(int)
+#endif
+
+STRUCTEQ_DEF(mydata, PADDING, start, end);
+
+int main(void)
+{
+	struct mydata a = { 0, 100 };
+
+	return mydata_eq(&a, &a);
+}
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/run-with-padding.c b/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/run-with-padding.c
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..d18b3e55d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/ccan/ccan/structeq/test/run-with-padding.c
@@ -0,0 +1,32 @@
+#include <ccan/structeq/structeq.h>
+#include <ccan/tap/tap.h>
+
+/* In theory, this could be generated without padding, if alignof(int) were 0,
+ * and test would fail.  Call me when that happens. */
+struct mydata {
+	char start;
+	int end;
+};
+
+STRUCTEQ_DEF(mydata, sizeof(int) - sizeof(char), start, end);
+
+int main(void)
+{
+	struct mydata a, b;
+
+	/* This is how many tests you plan to run */
+	plan_tests(3);
+
+	a.start = 0;
+	a.end = 100;
+	ok1(mydata_eq(&a, &a));
+
+	b = a;
+	ok1(mydata_eq(&a, &b));
+
+	b.end++;
+	ok1(!mydata_eq(&a, &b));
+
+	/* This exits depending on whether all tests passed */
+	return exit_status();
+}
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/benchmark/samba-allocs.c b/ccan/ccan/tal/benchmark/samba-allocs.c
index f2259a4e3..4bed1b2a2 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/benchmark/samba-allocs.c
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/benchmark/samba-allocs.c
@@ -178,15 +178,8 @@ static void do_tals(struct node *node)
 	unsigned int i;
 	static int count;
 
-	/* Tal pays a penalty for arrays, but we can't tell which is an array
-	 * and which isn't.  Grepping samba source gives 1221 talloc_array of
-	 * 33137 talloc occurrences, so conservatively assume 1 in 16 */
-	if (count++ % 16 == 0)
-		node->n = tal_arr(node->parent ? node->parent->n : NULL,
-				  char, node->len);
-	else
-		node->n = tal_alloc_(node->parent ? node->parent->n : NULL,
-				     node->len, false, false, TAL_LABEL(type, ""));
+	node->n = tal_arr(node->parent ? node->parent->n : NULL,
+			  char, node->len);
 
 	if (node->destructor)
 		tal_add_destructor(node->n, unused_tal_destructor);
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/_info b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/_info
index 3037cfde2..9b9c70b6b 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/_info
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/_info
@@ -7,7 +7,9 @@
  *
  * This is a grab bag of functions for string operations, designed to enhance
  * the standard string.h; these are separated from the non-tal-needing
- * string utilities in "str.h".
+ * string utilities in "str.h".  Each string created by this library
+ * will have tal_count() equal to strlen() + 1 (assuming you didn't create
+ * a string containing a NUL, such as using tal_fmt("%c", 0)).
  *
  * Example:
  *	#include <ccan/tal/str/str.h>
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/str.c b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/str.c
index 4b3b11aa6..cec31c752 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/str.c
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/str.c
@@ -12,14 +12,13 @@
 #include <stdio.h>
 #include <ccan/str/str.h>
 
-char *tal_strdup(const tal_t *ctx, const char *p)
+char *tal_strdup_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *p, const char *label)
 {
 	/* We have to let through NULL for take(). */
-	return tal_dup_(ctx, p, 1, p ? strlen(p) + 1: 1, 0, false,
-			TAL_LABEL(char, "[]"));
+	return tal_dup_arr_label(ctx, char, p, p ? strlen(p) + 1: 1, 0, label);
 }
 
-char *tal_strndup(const tal_t *ctx, const char *p, size_t n)
+char *tal_strndup_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *p, size_t n, const char *label)
 {
 	size_t len;
 	char *ret;
@@ -30,19 +29,19 @@ char *tal_strndup(const tal_t *ctx, const char *p, size_t n)
 	else
 		len = n;
 
-	ret = tal_dup_(ctx, p, 1, len, 1, false, TAL_LABEL(char, "[]"));
+	ret = tal_dup_arr_label(ctx, char, p, len, 1, label);
 	if (ret)
 		ret[len] = '\0';
 	return ret;
 }
 
-char *tal_fmt(const tal_t *ctx, const char *fmt, ...)
+char *tal_fmt_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *label, const char *fmt, ...)
 {
 	va_list ap;
 	char *ret;
 
 	va_start(ap, fmt);
-	ret = tal_vfmt(ctx, fmt, ap);
+	ret = tal_vfmt_(ctx, fmt, ap, label);
 	va_end(ap);
 
 	return ret;
@@ -69,6 +68,8 @@ static bool do_vfmt(char **buf, size_t off, const char *fmt, va_list ap)
 
 		if (ret < max) {
 			ok = true;
+			/* Make sure tal_count() is correct! */
+			tal_resize(buf, off + ret + 1);
 			break;
 		}
 		max *= 2;
@@ -79,7 +80,7 @@ static bool do_vfmt(char **buf, size_t off, const char *fmt, va_list ap)
 	return ok;
 }
 
-char *tal_vfmt(const tal_t *ctx, const char *fmt, va_list ap)
+char *tal_vfmt_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *fmt, va_list ap, const char *label)
 {
 	char *buf;
 
@@ -87,7 +88,7 @@ char *tal_vfmt(const tal_t *ctx, const char *fmt, va_list ap)
 		return NULL;
 
 	/* A decent guess to start. */
-	buf = tal_arr(ctx, char, strlen(fmt) * 2);
+	buf = tal_arr_label(ctx, char, strlen(fmt) * 2, label);
 	if (!do_vfmt(&buf, 0, fmt, ap))
 		buf = tal_free(buf);
 	return buf;
@@ -113,7 +114,8 @@ bool tal_append_fmt(char **baseptr, const char *fmt, ...)
 	return ret;
 }
 
-char *tal_strcat(const tal_t *ctx, const char *s1, const char *s2)
+char *tal_strcat_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *s1, const char *s2,
+		  const char *label)
 {
 	size_t len1, len2;
 	char *ret;
@@ -127,9 +129,7 @@ char *tal_strcat(const tal_t *ctx, const char *s1, const char *s2)
 	len1 = s1 ? strlen(s1) : 0;
 	len2 = strlen(s2);
 
-	/* We use tal_dup_ here to avoid attaching a length property. */
-	ret = tal_dup_(ctx, s1, 1, len1, len2 + 1, false,
-		       TAL_LABEL(char, "[]"));
+	ret = tal_dup_arr_label(ctx, char, s1, len1, len2 + 1, label);
 	if (likely(ret))
 		memcpy(ret + len1, s2, len2 + 1);
 
@@ -138,8 +138,9 @@ char *tal_strcat(const tal_t *ctx, const char *s1, const char *s2)
 	return ret;
 }
 
-char **tal_strsplit(const tal_t *ctx,
-		    const char *string, const char *delims, enum strsplit flags)
+char **tal_strsplit_(const tal_t *ctx,
+		     const char *string, const char *delims, enum strsplit flags,
+		     const char *label)
 {
 	char **parts, *str;
 	size_t max = 64, num = 0;
@@ -190,8 +191,9 @@ fail:
 	return NULL;
 }
 
-char *tal_strjoin(const tal_t *ctx,
-		  char *strings[], const char *delim, enum strjoin flags)
+char *tal_strjoin_(const tal_t *ctx,
+		   char *strings[], const char *delim, enum strjoin flags,
+		   const char *label)
 {
 	unsigned int i;
 	char *ret = NULL;
@@ -204,7 +206,7 @@ char *tal_strjoin(const tal_t *ctx,
 		goto fail;
 
 	dlen = strlen(delim);
-	ret = tal_arr(ctx, char, dlen*2+1);
+	ret = tal_arr_label(ctx, char, dlen*2+1, label);
 	if (!ret)
 		goto fail;
 
@@ -222,6 +224,8 @@ char *tal_strjoin(const tal_t *ctx,
 		totlen += dlen;
 	}
 	ret[totlen] = '\0';
+	/* Make sure tal_count() is correct! */
+	tal_resize(&ret, totlen+1);
 out:
 	if (taken(strings))
 		tal_free(strings);
@@ -255,7 +259,8 @@ static size_t count_open_braces(const char *string)
 #endif
 }
 
-bool tal_strreg(const tal_t *ctx, const char *string, const char *regex, ...)
+bool tal_strreg_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *string, const char *label,
+		 const char *regex, ...)
 {
 	size_t nmatch = 1 + count_open_braces(regex);
 	regmatch_t matches[nmatch];
@@ -285,10 +290,11 @@ bool tal_strreg(const tal_t *ctx, const char *string, const char *regex, ...)
 			if (matches[i].rm_so == -1)
 				*arg = NULL;
 			else {
-				*arg = tal_strndup(ctx,
-						   string + matches[i].rm_so,
-						   matches[i].rm_eo
-						   - matches[i].rm_so);
+				*arg = tal_strndup_(ctx,
+						    string + matches[i].rm_so,
+						    matches[i].rm_eo
+						    - matches[i].rm_so,
+						    label);
 				/* FIXME: If we fail, we set some and leak! */
 				if (!*arg) {
 					ret = false;
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/str.h b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/str.h
index ec853defc..f93948440 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/str.h
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/str.h
@@ -13,8 +13,11 @@
  * tal_strdup - duplicate a string
  * @ctx: NULL, or tal allocated object to be parent.
  * @p: the string to copy (can be take()).
+ *
+ * The returned string will have tal_count() == strlen() + 1.
  */
-char *tal_strdup(const tal_t *ctx, const char *p TAKES);
+#define tal_strdup(ctx, p) tal_strdup_(ctx, p, TAL_LABEL(char, "[]"))
+char *tal_strdup_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *p TAKES, const char *label);
 
 /**
  * tal_strndup - duplicate a limited amount of a string.
@@ -23,23 +26,36 @@ char *tal_strdup(const tal_t *ctx, const char *p TAKES);
  * @n: the maximum length to copy.
  *
  * Always gives a nul-terminated string, with strlen() <= @n.
+ * The returned string will have tal_count() == strlen() + 1.
  */
-char *tal_strndup(const tal_t *ctx, const char *p TAKES, size_t n);
+#define tal_strndup(ctx, p, n) tal_strndup_(ctx, p, n, TAL_LABEL(char, "[]"))
+char *tal_strndup_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *p TAKES, size_t n,
+		   const char *label);
 
 /**
  * tal_fmt - allocate a formatted string
  * @ctx: NULL, or tal allocated object to be parent.
  * @fmt: the printf-style format (can be take()).
+ *
+ * The returned string will have tal_count() == strlen() + 1.
  */
-char *tal_fmt(const tal_t *ctx, const char *fmt TAKES, ...) PRINTF_FMT(2,3);
+#define tal_fmt(ctx, ...)				 \
+	tal_fmt_(ctx, TAL_LABEL(char, "[]"), __VA_ARGS__)
+char *tal_fmt_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *label, const char *fmt TAKES,
+	        ...) PRINTF_FMT(3,4);
 
 /**
  * tal_vfmt - allocate a formatted string (va_list version)
  * @ctx: NULL, or tal allocated object to be parent.
  * @fmt: the printf-style format (can be take()).
  * @va: the va_list containing the format args.
+ *
+ * The returned string will have tal_count() == strlen() + 1.
  */
-char *tal_vfmt(const tal_t *ctx, const char *fmt TAKES, va_list ap)
+#define tal_vfmt(ctx, fmt, va)				\
+	tal_vfmt_(ctx, fmt, va, TAL_LABEL(char, "[]"))
+char *tal_vfmt_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *fmt TAKES, va_list ap,
+		const char *label)
 	PRINTF_FMT(2,0);
 
 /**
@@ -48,6 +64,7 @@ char *tal_vfmt(const tal_t *ctx, const char *fmt TAKES, va_list ap)
  * @fmt: the printf-style format (can be take()).
  *
  * Returns false on allocation failure.
+ * Otherwise tal_count(*@baseptr) == strlen(*@baseptr) + 1.
  */
 bool tal_append_fmt(char **baseptr, const char *fmt TAKES, ...) PRINTF_FMT(2,3);
 
@@ -58,6 +75,7 @@ bool tal_append_fmt(char **baseptr, const char *fmt TAKES, ...) PRINTF_FMT(2,3);
  * @va: the va_list containing the format args.
  *
  * Returns false on allocation failure.
+ * Otherwise tal_count(*@baseptr) == strlen(*@baseptr) + 1.
  */
 bool tal_append_vfmt(char **baseptr, const char *fmt TAKES, va_list ap);
 
@@ -66,8 +84,12 @@ bool tal_append_vfmt(char **baseptr, const char *fmt TAKES, va_list ap);
  * @ctx: NULL, or tal allocated object to be parent.
  * @s1: the first string (can be take()).
  * @s2: the second string (can be take()).
+ *
+ * The returned string will have tal_count() == strlen() + 1.
  */
-char *tal_strcat(const tal_t *ctx, const char *s1 TAKES, const char *s2 TAKES);
+#define tal_strcat(ctx, s1, s2) tal_strcat_(ctx, s1, s2, TAL_LABEL(char, "[]"))
+char *tal_strcat_(const tal_t *ctx, const char *s1 TAKES, const char *s2 TAKES,
+		  const char *label);
 
 enum strsplit {
 	STR_EMPTY_OK,
@@ -109,10 +131,13 @@ enum strsplit {
  *		return long_lines;
  *	}
  */
-char **tal_strsplit(const tal_t *ctx,
-		    const char *string TAKES,
-		    const char *delims TAKES,
-		    enum strsplit flag);
+#define tal_strsplit(ctx, string, delims, flag)	\
+	tal_strsplit_(ctx, string, delims, flag, TAL_LABEL(char *, "[]"))
+char **tal_strsplit_(const tal_t *ctx,
+		     const char *string TAKES,
+		     const char *delims TAKES,
+		     enum strsplit flag,
+		     const char *label);
 
 enum strjoin {
 	STR_TRAIL,
@@ -130,6 +155,8 @@ enum strjoin {
  * return value is allocated using tal.  Each string in @strings is
  * followed by a copy of @delim.
  *
+ * The returned string will have tal_count() == strlen() + 1.
+ *
  * Example:
  *	// Append the string "--EOL" to each line.
  *	static char *append_to_all_lines(const char *string)
@@ -142,10 +169,13 @@ enum strjoin {
  *		return ret;
  *	}
  */
-char *tal_strjoin(const void *ctx,
-		  char *strings[] TAKES,
-		  const char *delim TAKES,
-		  enum strjoin flags);
+#define tal_strjoin(ctx, strings, delim, flags)				\
+	tal_strjoin_(ctx, strings, delim, flags, TAL_LABEL(char, "[]"))
+char *tal_strjoin_(const void *ctx,
+		   char *strings[] TAKES,
+		   const char *delim TAKES,
+		   enum strjoin flags,
+		   const char *label);
 
 /**
  * tal_strreg - match/extract from a string via (extended) regular expressions.
@@ -163,6 +193,7 @@ char *tal_strjoin(const void *ctx,
  * non-existent matches (eg "([a-z]*)?") the pointer is set to NULL.
  *
  * Allocation failures or malformed regular expressions return false.
+ * The allocated strings will have tal_count() == strlen() + 1.
  *
  * See Also:
  *	regcomp(3), regex(3).
@@ -187,6 +218,8 @@ char *tal_strjoin(const void *ctx,
  *		return 0;
  *	}
  */
-bool tal_strreg(const void *ctx, const char *string TAKES,
-		const char *regex TAKES, ...);
+#define tal_strreg(ctx, string, ...)					\
+	tal_strreg_(ctx, string, TAL_LABEL(char, "[]"), __VA_ARGS__)
+bool tal_strreg_(const void *ctx, const char *string TAKES,
+		 const char *label, const char *regex, ...);
 #endif /* CCAN_STR_TAL_H */
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-fmt-terminate.c b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-fmt-terminate.c
index 374ca03a1..3474cdfa1 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-fmt-terminate.c
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-fmt-terminate.c
@@ -11,11 +11,12 @@ int main(void)
 	char *str;
 	const char *fmt = "";
 
-	plan_tests(1);
+	plan_tests(2);
 	/* GCC complains about empty format string, complains about non-literal
 	 * with no args... */
 	str = tal_fmt(NULL, fmt, "");
 	ok1(!strcmp(str, ""));
+	ok1(tal_count(str) == strlen(str) + 1);
 	tal_free(str);
 
 	return exit_status();
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-string.c b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-string.c
index 533ad0128..03d4eb51b 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-string.c
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-string.c
@@ -7,7 +7,7 @@ int main(void)
 {
 	char *parent, *c;
 
-	plan_tests(32);
+	plan_tests(43);
 
 	parent = tal(NULL, char);
 	ok1(parent);
@@ -15,11 +15,13 @@ int main(void)
 	c = tal_strdup(parent, "hello");
 	ok1(strcmp(c, "hello") == 0);
 	ok1(tal_parent(c) == parent);
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == strlen(c) + 1);
 	tal_free(c);
 
 	c = tal_strndup(parent, "hello", 3);
 	ok1(strcmp(c, "hel") == 0);
 	ok1(tal_parent(c) == parent);
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == strlen(c) + 1);
 	tal_free(c);
 
 #ifdef TAL_USE_TALLOC
@@ -30,6 +32,7 @@ int main(void)
 	c = tal_dup_arr(parent, char, "hello", 6, 0);
 	ok1(strcmp(c, "hello") == 0);
 	ok1(strcmp(tal_name(c), "char[]") == 0);
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == 6);
 	ok1(tal_parent(c) == parent);
 	tal_free(c);
 
@@ -37,26 +40,31 @@ int main(void)
 	c = tal_dup_arr(parent, char, "hello", 6, 1);
 	ok1(strcmp(c, "hello") == 0);
 	ok1(strcmp(tal_name(c), "char[]") == 0);
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == 7);
 	ok1(tal_parent(c) == parent);
 	strcat(c, "x");
 	tal_free(c);
 
 	c = tal_fmt(parent, "hello %s", "there");
 	ok1(strcmp(c, "hello there") == 0);
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == strlen(c) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_parent(c) == parent);
 	tal_free(c);
 
 	c = tal_strcat(parent, "hello ", "there");
 	ok1(strcmp(c, "hello there") == 0);
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == strlen(c) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_parent(c) == parent);
 
 	/* Make sure take works correctly. */
 	c = tal_strcat(parent, take(c), " again");
 	ok1(strcmp(c, "hello there again") == 0);
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == strlen(c) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_parent(c) == parent);
 	ok1(single_child(parent, c));
 
 	c = tal_strcat(parent, "And ", take(c));
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == strlen(c) + 1);
 	ok1(strcmp(c, "And hello there again") == 0);
 	ok1(tal_parent(c) == parent);
 	ok1(single_child(parent, c));
@@ -77,12 +85,15 @@ int main(void)
 
 	/* Appending formatted strings. */
 	c = tal_strdup(parent, "hi");
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == strlen(c) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_append_fmt(&c, "%s %s", "there", "world"));
 	ok1(strcmp(c, "hithere world") == 0);
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == strlen(c) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_parent(c) == parent);
 
 	ok1(!tal_append_fmt(&c, take(NULL), "there", "world"));
 	ok1(strcmp(c, "hithere world") == 0);
+	ok1(tal_count(c) == strlen(c) + 1);
 
 	tal_free(parent);
 
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-strndup.c b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-strndup.c
index 55e35fd4b..94689d8c6 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-strndup.c
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-strndup.c
@@ -9,12 +9,13 @@ int main(void)
 {
 	char *str, *copy;
 
-	plan_tests(1);
+	plan_tests(2);
 	str = malloc(5);
 	memcpy(str, "hello", 5);
 	/* We should be fine to strndup src without nul terminator. */
 	copy = tal_strndup(NULL, str, 5);
 	ok1(!strcmp(copy, "hello"));
+	ok1(tal_count(copy) == strlen(copy) + 1);
 	tal_free(copy);
 	free(str);
 
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-strreg.c b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-strreg.c
index 93b8602a3..55e244c61 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-strreg.c
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run-strreg.c
@@ -21,7 +21,7 @@ int main(void)
 	/* If it accesses this, it will crash. */
 	char **invalid = (char **)1L;
 
-	plan_tests(41);
+	plan_tests(54);
 	/* Simple matching. */
 	ok1(tal_strreg(ctx, "hello world!", "hello") == true);
 	ok1(tal_strreg(ctx, "hello world!", "hi") == false);
@@ -36,12 +36,15 @@ int main(void)
 	ok1(streq(a, "hello"));
 	/* Allocated off ctx */
 	ok1(find_parent(a, ctx));
+	ok1(tal_count(a) == strlen(a) + 1);
 	tal_free(a);
 
 	ok1(tal_strreg(ctx, "hello world!", "([a-z]*) ([a-z]+)",
 		       &a, &b, invalid) == true);
 	ok1(streq(a, "hello"));
 	ok1(streq(b, "world"));
+	ok1(tal_count(a) == strlen(a) + 1);
+	ok1(tal_count(b) == strlen(b) + 1);
 	ok1(find_parent(a, ctx));
 	ok1(find_parent(b, ctx));
 	tal_free(a);
@@ -52,6 +55,8 @@ int main(void)
 		       &a, &b, invalid) == true);
 	ok1(streq(a, "o"));
 	ok1(streq(b, "world"));
+	ok1(tal_count(a) == strlen(a) + 1);
+	ok1(tal_count(b) == strlen(b) + 1);
 	tal_free(a);
 	tal_free(b);
 
@@ -60,6 +65,8 @@ int main(void)
 		       &a, &b, invalid) == true);
 	ok1(streq(a, "hello world"));
 	ok1(streq(b, "hello"));
+	ok1(tal_count(a) == strlen(a) + 1);
+	ok1(tal_count(b) == strlen(b) + 1);
 	tal_free(a);
 	tal_free(b);
 
@@ -68,6 +75,8 @@ int main(void)
 		       &a, &b, invalid) == true);
 	ok1(streq(a, "hello world"));
 	ok1(streq(b, "hello"));
+	ok1(tal_count(a) == strlen(a) + 1);
+	ok1(tal_count(b) == strlen(b) + 1);
 	tal_free(a);
 	tal_free(b);
 
@@ -75,6 +84,7 @@ int main(void)
 	ok1(tal_strreg(ctx, "hello world!", "((hello|goodbye) world)",
 		       &a, NULL, invalid) == true);
 	ok1(streq(a, "hello world"));
+	ok1(tal_count(a) == strlen(a) + 1);
 	tal_free(a);
 
 	/* No leaks! */
@@ -88,6 +98,7 @@ int main(void)
 	a = tal_strdup(ctx, "hello world!");
 	ok1(tal_strreg(ctx, take(a), "([a-z]+)", &b, invalid) == true);
 	ok1(streq(b, "hello"));
+	ok1(tal_count(b) == strlen(b) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_parent(b) == ctx);
 	tal_free(b);
 	ok1(no_children(ctx));
@@ -96,6 +107,7 @@ int main(void)
 	a = tal_strdup(ctx, "([a-z]+)");
 	ok1(tal_strreg(ctx, "hello world!", take(a), &b, invalid) == true);
 	ok1(streq(b, "hello"));
+	ok1(tal_count(b) == strlen(b) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_parent(b) == ctx);
 	tal_free(b);
 	ok1(no_children(ctx));
@@ -105,6 +117,7 @@ int main(void)
 	ok1(tal_strreg(ctx, take(tal_strdup(ctx, "hello world!")),
 		       take(a), &b, invalid) == true);
 	ok1(streq(b, "hello"));
+	ok1(tal_count(b) == strlen(b) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_parent(b) == ctx);
 	tal_free(b);
 	ok1(no_children(ctx));
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run.c b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run.c
index a59d94008..626434c31 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run.c
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/str/test/run.c
@@ -15,7 +15,7 @@ int main(void)
 	char **split, *str;
 	void *ctx;
 
-	plan_tests(69);
+	plan_tests(78);
 	split = tal_strsplit(NULL, "hello  world", " ", STR_EMPTY_OK);
 	ok1(!strcmp(split[0], "hello"));
 	ok1(!strcmp(split[1], ""));
@@ -54,16 +54,20 @@ int main(void)
 
 	str = tal_strjoin(NULL, (char **)substrings, ", ", STR_TRAIL);
 	ok1(!strcmp(str, "far, bar, baz, b, ba, z, ar, "));
+	ok1(tal_count(str) == strlen(str) + 1);
 	ctx = str;
 	str = tal_strjoin(ctx, (char **)substrings, "", STR_TRAIL);
 	ok1(!strcmp(str, "farbarbazbbazar"));
+	ok1(tal_count(str) == strlen(str) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_parent(str) == ctx);
 	str = tal_strjoin(ctx, (char **)substrings, ", ", STR_NO_TRAIL);
 	ok1(tal_parent(str) == ctx);
 	ok1(!strcmp(str, "far, bar, baz, b, ba, z, ar"));
+	ok1(tal_count(str) == strlen(str) + 1);
 	str = tal_strjoin(ctx, (char **)substrings, "", STR_NO_TRAIL);
 	ok1(!strcmp(str, "farbarbazbbazar"));
 	ok1(tal_parent(str) == ctx);
+	ok1(tal_count(str) == strlen(str) + 1);
 	tal_free(ctx);
 
 	ctx = tal_strdup(NULL, "context");
@@ -77,6 +81,7 @@ int main(void)
 	str = tal_strdup(ctx, "hello world");
 	ok1(tal_check(ctx, NULL));
 	ok1(tal_check(str, NULL));
+	ok1(tal_count(str) == strlen(str) + 1);
 	split = tal_strsplit(ctx, take(str), " ", STR_EMPTY_OK);
 	ok1(tal_parent(split) == ctx);
 	ok1(!strcmp(split[0], "hello"));
@@ -90,6 +95,7 @@ int main(void)
 
 	/* tal_strsplit take delims */
 	str = tal_strdup(ctx, " ");
+	ok1(tal_count(str) == strlen(str) + 1);
 	split = tal_strsplit(ctx, "hello world", take(str), STR_EMPTY_OK);
 	ok1(tal_parent(split) == ctx);
 	ok1(!strcmp(split[0], "hello"));
@@ -124,6 +130,7 @@ int main(void)
 	split = tal_strsplit(ctx, "hello world", " ", STR_EMPTY_OK);
 	str = tal_strjoin(ctx, take(split), " there ", STR_NO_TRAIL);
 	ok1(!strcmp(str, "hello there world"));
+	ok1(tal_count(str) == strlen(str) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_parent(str) == ctx);
 	/* split is gone... */
 	ok1(single_child(ctx, str));
@@ -136,6 +143,7 @@ int main(void)
 			  STR_NO_TRAIL);
 	ok1(!strcmp(str, "hello there world"));
 	ok1(tal_parent(str) == ctx);
+	ok1(tal_count(str) == strlen(str) + 1);
 	tal_free(split);
 	/* tmp alloc is gone, str is only remainder. */
 	ok1(single_child(ctx, str));
@@ -147,6 +155,7 @@ int main(void)
 						 STR_EMPTY_OK)),
 			  take(tal_strdup(ctx, " there ")), STR_NO_TRAIL);
 	ok1(!strcmp(str, "hello there world"));
+	ok1(tal_count(str) == strlen(str) + 1);
 	ok1(tal_parent(str) == ctx);
 	/* tmp allocs are gone, str is only remainder. */
 	ok1(single_child(ctx, str));
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/tal.c b/ccan/ccan/tal/tal.c
index 0e3c97b39..3fac61129 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/tal.c
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/tal.c
@@ -24,7 +24,6 @@ enum prop_type {
 	CHILDREN = 0x00c1d500,
 	NAME = 0x00111100,
 	NOTIFIER = 0x00071f00,
-	LENGTH = 0x00515300
 };
 
 struct tal_hdr {
@@ -32,6 +31,7 @@ struct tal_hdr {
 	struct prop_hdr *prop;
 	/* XOR with TAL_PTR_OBFUSTICATOR */
 	intptr_t parent_child;
+	size_t bytelen;
 };
 
 struct prop_hdr {
@@ -50,11 +50,6 @@ struct name {
 	char name[];
 };
 
-struct length {
-	struct prop_hdr hdr; /* LENGTH */
-	size_t len;
-};
-
 struct notifier {
 	struct prop_hdr hdr; /* NOTIFIER */
 	enum tal_notify_type types;
@@ -77,7 +72,7 @@ static struct {
 	struct tal_hdr hdr;
 	struct children c;
 } null_parent = { { { &null_parent.hdr.list, &null_parent.hdr.list },
-		    &null_parent.c.hdr, TAL_PTR_OBFUSTICATOR },
+		    &null_parent.c.hdr, TAL_PTR_OBFUSTICATOR, 0 },
 		  { { CHILDREN, NULL },
 		    &null_parent.hdr,
 		    { { &null_parent.c.children.n,
@@ -414,50 +409,23 @@ static void del_tree(struct tal_hdr *t, const tal_t *orig, int saved_errno)
         /* Finally free our properties. */
         for (p = t->prop; p && !is_literal(p); p = next) {
                 next = p->next;
-		/* LENGTH is appended, so don't free separately! */
-		if (p->type != LENGTH)
-			freefn(p);
+		freefn(p);
         }
         freefn(t);
 }
 
-static size_t extra_for_length(size_t size)
-{
-	size_t extra;
-	const size_t align = ALIGNOF(struct length);
-
-	/* Round up size, and add tailer. */
-	extra = ((size + align-1) & ~(align-1)) - size;
-	extra += sizeof(struct length);
-	return extra;
-}
-
-void *tal_alloc_(const tal_t *ctx, size_t size,
-		 bool clear, bool add_length, const char *label)
+void *tal_alloc_(const tal_t *ctx, size_t size, bool clear, const char *label)
 {
-	size_t req_size = size;
         struct tal_hdr *child, *parent = debug_tal(to_tal_hdr_or_null(ctx));
 
-#ifdef CCAN_TAL_DEBUG
-	/* Always record length if debugging. */
-	add_length = true;
-#endif
-	if (add_length)
-		size += extra_for_length(size);
-
         child = allocate(sizeof(struct tal_hdr) + size);
 	if (!child)
 		return NULL;
 	if (clear)
-		memset(from_tal_hdr(child), 0, req_size);
+		memset(from_tal_hdr(child), 0, size);
         child->prop = (void *)label;
+	child->bytelen = size;
 
-	if (add_length) {
-		struct length *lprop;
-		lprop = (struct length *)((char *)(child+1) + size) - 1;
-		init_property(&lprop->hdr, child, LENGTH);
-		lprop->len = req_size;
-	}
         if (!add_child(parent, child)) {
 		freefn(child);
 		return NULL;
@@ -470,7 +438,7 @@ void *tal_alloc_(const tal_t *ctx, size_t size,
 
 static bool adjust_size(size_t *size, size_t count)
 {
-	const size_t extra = sizeof(struct tal_hdr) + sizeof(struct length)*2;
+	const size_t extra = sizeof(struct tal_hdr);
 
 	/* Multiplication wrap */
         if (count && unlikely(*size * count / *size != count))
@@ -478,7 +446,7 @@ static bool adjust_size(size_t *size, size_t count)
 
         *size *= count;
 
-        /* Make sure we don't wrap adding header/tailer. */
+        /* Make sure we don't wrap adding header. */
         if (*size + extra < extra)
 		goto overflow;
 	return true;
@@ -488,12 +456,12 @@ overflow:
 }
 
 void *tal_alloc_arr_(const tal_t *ctx, size_t size, size_t count, bool clear,
-		     bool add_length, const char *label)
+		     const char *label)
 {
 	if (!adjust_size(&size, count))
 		return NULL;
 
-	return tal_alloc_(ctx, size, clear, add_length, label);
+	return tal_alloc_(ctx, size, clear, label);
 }
 
 void *tal_free(const tal_t *ctx)
@@ -656,17 +624,12 @@ const char *tal_name(const tal_t *t)
 	return n->name;
 }
 
-size_t tal_len(const tal_t *ptr)
+size_t tal_bytelen(const tal_t *ptr)
 {
-	struct length *l;
+	/* NULL -> null_parent which has bytelen 0 */
+	struct tal_hdr *t = debug_tal(to_tal_hdr_or_null(ptr));
 
-	if (!ptr)
-		return 0;
-
-	l = find_property(debug_tal(to_tal_hdr(ptr)), LENGTH);
-	if (!l)
-		return 0;
-	return l->len;
+	return t->bytelen;
 }
 
 /* Start one past first child: make stopping natural in circ. list. */
@@ -720,52 +683,27 @@ bool tal_resize_(tal_t **ctxp, size_t size, size_t count, bool clear)
 {
         struct tal_hdr *old_t, *t;
         struct children *child;
-	struct prop_hdr **lenp;
-	struct length len;
-	size_t extra = 0;
 
         old_t = debug_tal(to_tal_hdr(*ctxp));
 
 	if (!adjust_size(&size, count))
 		return false;
 
-	lenp = find_property_ptr(old_t, LENGTH);
-	if (lenp) {
-		/* Copy here, in case we're shrinking! */
-		len = *(struct length *)*lenp;
-		extra = extra_for_length(size);
-	} else /* If we don't have an old length, we can't clear! */
-		assert(!clear);
-
-        t = resizefn(old_t, sizeof(struct tal_hdr) + size + extra);
+        t = resizefn(old_t, sizeof(struct tal_hdr) + size);
 	if (!t) {
 		call_error("Reallocation failure");
 		return false;
 	}
 
-	/* Copy length to end. */
-	if (lenp) {
-		struct length *new_len;
-
-		/* Clear between old end and new end. */
-		if (clear && size > len.len) {
-			char *old_end = (char *)(t + 1) + len.len;
-			memset(old_end, 0, size - len.len);
-		}
-
-		new_len = (struct length *)((char *)(t + 1) + size
-					    + extra - sizeof(len));
-		len.len = size;
-		*new_len = len;
-
-		/* Be careful replacing next ptr; could be old hdr. */
-		if (lenp == &old_t->prop)
-			t->prop = &new_len->hdr;
-		else
-			*lenp = &new_len->hdr;
+	/* Clear between old end and new end. */
+	if (clear && size > t->bytelen) {
+		char *old_end = (char *)(t + 1) + t->bytelen;
+		memset(old_end, 0, size - t->bytelen);
 	}
 
-	update_bounds(t, sizeof(struct tal_hdr) + size + extra);
+	/* Update length. */
+	t->bytelen = size;
+	update_bounds(t, sizeof(struct tal_hdr) + size);
 
 	/* If it didn't move, we're done! */
         if (t != old_t) {
@@ -790,12 +728,10 @@ bool tal_resize_(tal_t **ctxp, size_t size, size_t count, bool clear)
 
 bool tal_expand_(tal_t **ctxp, const void *src, size_t size, size_t count)
 {
-	struct length *l;
 	size_t old_len;
 	bool ret = false;
 
-	l = find_property(debug_tal(to_tal_hdr(*ctxp)), LENGTH);
-	old_len = l->len;
+	old_len = debug_tal(to_tal_hdr(*ctxp))->bytelen;
 
 	/* Check for additive overflow */
 	if (old_len + count * size < old_len) {
@@ -820,8 +756,7 @@ out:
 }
 
 void *tal_dup_(const tal_t *ctx, const void *p, size_t size,
-	       size_t n, size_t extra, bool add_length,
-	       const char *label)
+	       size_t n, size_t extra, const char *label)
 {
 	void *ret;
 	size_t nbytes = size;
@@ -850,7 +785,7 @@ void *tal_dup_(const tal_t *ctx, const void *p, size_t size,
 		return (void *)p;
 	}
 
-	ret = tal_alloc_arr_(ctx, size, n + extra, false, add_length, label);
+	ret = tal_alloc_arr_(ctx, size, n + extra, false, label);
 	if (ret)
 		memcpy(ret, p, nbytes);
 	return ret;
@@ -879,12 +814,11 @@ static void dump_node(unsigned int indent, const struct tal_hdr *t)
 
 	for (i = 0; i < indent; i++)
 		printf("  ");
-	printf("%p", t);
+	printf("%p len=%zu", t, t->bytelen);
         for (p = t->prop; p; p = p->next) {
 		struct children *c;
 		struct name *n;
 		struct notifier *no;
-		struct length *l;
                 if (is_literal(p)) {
 			printf(" \"%s\"", (const char *)p);
 			break;
@@ -904,10 +838,6 @@ static void dump_node(unsigned int indent, const struct tal_hdr *t)
 			no = (struct notifier *)p;
 			printf(" NOTIFIER(%p):fn=%p", p, no->u.notifyfn);
 			break;
-		case LENGTH:
-			l = (struct length *)p;
-			printf(" LENGTH(%p):len=%zu", p, l->len);
-			break;
 		default:
 			printf(" **UNKNOWN(%p):%i**", p, p->type);
 		}
@@ -955,7 +885,6 @@ static bool check_node(struct children *parent_child,
 	struct prop_hdr *p;
 	struct name *name = NULL;
 	struct children *children = NULL;
-	struct length *length = NULL;
 
 	if (!in_bounds(t))
 		return check_err(t, errorstr, "invalid pointer");
@@ -981,12 +910,6 @@ static bool check_node(struct children *parent_child,
 						 "has two child nodes");
 			children = (struct children *)p;
 			break;
-		case LENGTH:
-			if (length)
-				return check_err(t, errorstr,
-						 "has two lengths");
-			length = (struct length *)p;
-			break;
 		case NOTIFIER:
 			break;
 		case NAME:
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/tal.h b/ccan/ccan/tal/tal.h
index 30c8e7bb9..54318e1fa 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/tal.h
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/tal.h
@@ -28,12 +28,14 @@ typedef void tal_t;
  * of the object is a string of the type, but if CCAN_TAL_DEBUG is
  * defined it also contains the file and line which allocated it.
  *
+ * tal_count() of the return will be 1.
+ *
  * Example:
  *	int *p = tal(NULL, int);
  *	*p = 1;
  */
 #define tal(ctx, type)							\
-	((type *)tal_alloc_((ctx), sizeof(type), false, false, TAL_LABEL(type, "")))
+	tal_label(ctx, type, TAL_LABEL(type, ""))
 
 /**
  * talz - zeroing allocator function
@@ -47,7 +49,7 @@ typedef void tal_t;
  *	assert(*p == 0);
  */
 #define talz(ctx, type)							\
-	((type *)tal_alloc_((ctx), sizeof(type), true, false, TAL_LABEL(type, "")))
+	talz_label(ctx, type, TAL_LABEL(type, ""))
 
 /**
  * tal_free - free a tal-allocated pointer.
@@ -71,8 +73,7 @@ void *tal_free(const tal_t *p);
  * @type: the type to allocate.
  * @count: the number to allocate.
  *
- * Note that an object allocated with tal_arr() has a length property;
- * see tal_count().
+ * tal_count() of the returned pointer will be @count.
  *
  * Example:
  *	p = tal_arr(NULL, int, 2);
@@ -80,8 +81,7 @@ void *tal_free(const tal_t *p);
  *	p[1] = 1;
  */
 #define tal_arr(ctx, type, count)					\
-	((type *)tal_alloc_arr_((ctx), sizeof(type), (count), false,	\
-				true, TAL_LABEL(type, "[]")))
+	tal_arr_label(ctx, type, count, TAL_LABEL(type, "[]"))
 
 /**
  * tal_arrz - allocate an array of zeroed objects.
@@ -89,24 +89,22 @@ void *tal_free(const tal_t *p);
  * @type: the type to allocate.
  * @count: the number to allocate.
  *
- * Note that an object allocated with tal_arrz() has a length property;
- * see tal_count().
+ * Equivalent to tal_arr() followed by memset() to zero.
  *
  * Example:
  *	p = tal_arrz(NULL, int, 2);
  *	assert(p[0] == 0 && p[1] == 0);
  */
 #define tal_arrz(ctx, type, count) \
-	((type *)tal_alloc_arr_((ctx), sizeof(type), (count), true,	\
-				true, TAL_LABEL(type, "[]")))
+	tal_arrz_label(ctx, type, count, TAL_LABEL(type, "[]"))
 
 /**
- * tal_resize - enlarge or reduce a tal_arr[z].
+ * tal_resize - enlarge or reduce a tal object.
  * @p: A pointer to the tal allocated array to resize.
  * @count: the number to allocate.
  *
  * This returns true on success (and may move *@p), or false on failure.
- * If @p has a length property, it is updated on success.
+ * On success, tal_count() of *@p will be @count.
  *
  * Example:
  *	tal_resize(&p, 100);
@@ -115,13 +113,11 @@ void *tal_free(const tal_t *p);
 	tal_resize_((void **)(p), sizeof**(p), (count), false)
 
 /**
- * tal_resizez - enlarge or reduce a tal_arr[z]; zero out extra.
+ * tal_resizez - enlarge or reduce a tal object; zero out extra.
  * @p: A pointer to the tal allocated array to resize.
  * @count: the number to allocate.
  *
  * This returns true on success (and may move *@p), or false on failure.
- * If @p has a length property, it is updated on success.
- * On expand, new elements are memset to 0 bytes.
  *
  * Example:
  *	tal_resizez(&p, 200);
@@ -304,22 +300,22 @@ enum tal_notify_type {
 const char *tal_name(const tal_t *ptr);
 
 /**
- * tal_count - get the count of objects in a tal_arr.
- * @ptr: The tal allocated object array (or NULL)
+ * tal_count - get the count of objects in a tal object.
+ * @ptr: The tal allocated object (or NULL)
  *
- * Returns 0 if @ptr has no length property or is NULL, but be aware
- * that that is also a valid size!
+ * Returns 0 if @ptr is NULL.  Note that if the allocation was done as a
+ * different type to @ptr, the result may not match the @count argument
+ * (or implied 1) of that allocation!
  */
-#define tal_count(p) (tal_len(p) / sizeof(*p))
+#define tal_count(p) (tal_bytelen(p) / sizeof(*p))
 
 /**
- * tal_len - get the count of bytes in a tal_arr.
- * @ptr: The tal allocated object array (or NULL)
+ * tal_bytelen - get the count of bytes in a tal object.
+ * @ptr: The tal allocated object (or NULL)
  *
- * Returns 0 if @ptr has no length property or NULL, but be aware that that is
- * also a valid size!
+ * Returns 0 if @ptr is NULL.
  */
-size_t tal_len(const tal_t *ptr);
+size_t tal_bytelen(const tal_t *ptr);
 
 /**
  * tal_first - get the first immediate tal object child.
@@ -353,9 +349,7 @@ tal_t *tal_parent(const tal_t *ctx);
  * @p: the object to copy (or reparented if take())
  */
 #define tal_dup(ctx, type, p)					\
-	((type *)tal_dup_((ctx), tal_typechk_(p, type *),	\
-			  sizeof(type), 1, 0,			\
-			  false, TAL_LABEL(type, "")))
+	tal_dup_label(ctx, type, p, TAL_LABEL(type, ""))
 
 /**
  * tal_dup_arr - duplicate an array.
@@ -366,10 +360,27 @@ tal_t *tal_parent(const tal_t *ctx);
  * @extra: the number of extra sizeof(type) entries to allocate.
  */
 #define tal_dup_arr(ctx, type, p, n, extra)			\
+	tal_dup_arr_label(ctx, type, p, n, extra, TAL_LABEL(type, "[]"))
+
+
+
+/* Lower-level interfaces, where you want to supply your own label string. */
+#define tal_label(ctx, type, label)						\
+	((type *)tal_alloc_((ctx), sizeof(type), false, label))
+#define talz_label(ctx, type, label)						\
+	((type *)tal_alloc_((ctx), sizeof(type), true, label))
+#define tal_arr_label(ctx, type, count, label)					\
+	((type *)tal_alloc_arr_((ctx), sizeof(type), (count), false, label))
+#define tal_arrz_label(ctx, type, count, label)					\
+	((type *)tal_alloc_arr_((ctx), sizeof(type), (count), true, label))
+#define tal_dup_label(ctx, type, p, label)			\
+	((type *)tal_dup_((ctx), tal_typechk_(p, type *),	\
+			  sizeof(type), 1, 0,			\
+			  label))
+#define tal_dup_arr_label(ctx, type, p, n, extra, label)	\
 	((type *)tal_dup_((ctx), tal_typechk_(p, type *),	\
 			  sizeof(type), (n), (extra),		\
-			  true, TAL_LABEL(type, "[]")))
-
+			  label))
 
 /**
  * tal_set_backend - set the allocation or error functions to use
@@ -483,14 +494,12 @@ bool tal_set_name_(tal_t *ctx, const char *name, bool literal);
 #define tal_typechk_(ptr, ptype) (ptr)
 #endif
 
-void *tal_alloc_(const tal_t *ctx, size_t bytes, bool clear,
-		 bool add_length, const char *label);
+void *tal_alloc_(const tal_t *ctx, size_t bytes, bool clear, const char *label);
 void *tal_alloc_arr_(const tal_t *ctx, size_t bytes, size_t count, bool clear,
-		     bool add_length, const char *label);
+		     const char *label);
 
 void *tal_dup_(const tal_t *ctx, const void *p TAKES, size_t size,
-	       size_t n, size_t extra, bool add_length,
-	       const char *label);
+	       size_t n, size_t extra, const char *label);
 
 tal_t *tal_steal_(const tal_t *new_parent, const tal_t *t);
 
diff --git a/ccan/ccan/tal/test/run-count.c b/ccan/ccan/tal/test/run-count.c
index 33049b9f7..a621e1d8b 100644
--- a/ccan/ccan/tal/test/run-count.c
+++ b/ccan/ccan/tal/test/run-count.c
@@ -46,7 +46,7 @@ int main(void)
 	plan_tests(2 + 19 * 3);
 
 	p1 = NULL;
-	ok1(tal_len(p1) == 0);
+	ok1(tal_bytelen(p1) == 0);
 	ok1(tal_count(p1) == 0);
 
 	for (i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
@@ -54,7 +54,7 @@ int main(void)
 
 		p1 = tal(NULL, char);
 		ok1(p1);
-		ok1(tal_count(p1) == 0);
+		ok1(tal_count(p1) == 1);
 
 		p2 = tal_arr(p1, char, 1);
 		ok1(p2);
diff --git a/ccan_compat.h b/ccan_compat.h
index 1c648dabe..f0337f33f 100644
--- a/ccan_compat.h
+++ b/ccan_compat.h
@@ -16,12 +16,4 @@
 #define sha256_be16(ctx, v) ccan_sha256_be16(ctx, v)
 #define sha256_be32(ctx, v) ccan_sha256_be32(ctx, v)
 #define sha256_be64(ctx, v) ccan_sha256_be64(ctx, v)
-
-/* Transition for ccan update. */
-#define tal_bytelen(x) tal_len(x)
-#define tal_arr_label(ctx, type, len, label) \
-	((type *)tal_alloc_arr_(ctx, sizeof(type), len, false, true, label))
-#define tal_arrz_label(ctx, type, len, label) \
-	((type *)tal_alloc_arr_(ctx, sizeof(type), len, true, true, label))
-
 #endif /* LIGHTNING_CCAN_COMPAT_H */